Readout Abreviation Definitions

[Tony]

Hi game and content creators,

Could anyone be so kind as to enlighten me on the meaning of the readouts found in the lower left corner of the edit-mode screen?
Some are pretty obvious, and the others probably will be too... once you enlighten me =)

Example:

wtr: Ok (75%) wvt: 3k (19%) evt: 1k eva:0k
ond: 4680 va: 932 gl: 291 (2) oq: 256 lm: 0 rp: 0 pvs: 0

What does wtr, wvt, evt, eva, ond, va, gl, oq, lm, and pvs stand for?

Edit: Answer - - - - - For some of them anyway. Hey, and "evt" is for environment, of sorts.

cube: the number of cubes in the current selection. Only the visible (leaf)cubes are counted.
fps: frames per second
ond: number of cubes in the system. This includes parent cubes, copied cubes,and undos.
va: number of vertex arrays used to store vertecies in the map. you probablydon't need to use this.
vtr: number of triangles currently being displayed. will be a useful stat whenculling is done.
vvt: number of vertecies currently being displayed. again, useful when cullingis done.
tri: number of triangles in the entire map
wvt: number of vertecies in the entire map
evt: misc rendering effects. stuff like particles displayed, or text written on screen.

- - - - - - - -

[Hirato]

I'm not too sure myself right now, but the two most important to mappers are wtr and wvt

wtr - World TRiangles, the amount of triangles in world geometry, the % is how much is rendered
wvt - like the above but for vertices
evt - ?
eva - I think this is Evaluated Vertex Arrays... basically this is how many triangles were drawn
ond - ?
va - Vertex Arrays?
gl - gl calls? constants? in any case you should try to keep this low
oq- occlusion queries?
lm - something to do with lightmaps
rp - ?
pvs - something to do with PVS cells (genpvs to generate)

PVS is a software based occlusion method for really old/intel GPUs that don't support hardware occlusion queries

[Tony]

"evt" is probably Environment,like as in weather effects, etc.

Thanks for the reply Hirato.

I've been creating some maps to practice the world-builder side of this thing. Not bad.
I'll probably make those available to the community after I have a collection of them.

I want to begin writing some game content for RPG games.
I hope there is enough of this thing active to get some good practice in.

My best bet is to study documentation for the Cube 2 scripting, yes?

I've been looking around for other 3d game creation software options, and the pickings are slim. It seems to be either under-developed free software, or a full suite of AutoDesk software package. I do not mind spending a few bucks on software, if it will get me into creating 3d RPG games. Any suggestions?

I want to be able to export the games as standalone EXE versions, with no ad-screens or such, and I want to be able to make professional looking games without hiring a crew of 567 people to do it. Any ideas?

I'm going to keep playing with PAS, but I'd certainly wouldn't mind exploring other options as well. My goal is 3d RPG style games for PC platform.

[Hirato]

"evt" is probably Environment,like as in weather effects, etc.

There are no such environment effects, all of the included examples are simply particle emitters.
It more likely than not probably refers to drawn vertices or something, I'd have to check the code.

My best bet is to study documentation for the Cube 2 scripting, yes?

Aka, Cubescript. It's lispy and it's highly recommended that you're at least somewhat familiar with it before you tackle things.
We have a brief introduction on the wiki with some examples that should explain most of the constructs.
http://www.sandboxgamemaker.com/wiki/in ... Cubescript
As with anything, practice makes perfect, reading the article won't make you any good with it

I've been looking around for other 3d game creation software options, and the pickings are slim. It seems to be either under-developed free software, or a full suite of AutoDesk software package. I do not mind spending a few bucks on software, if it will get me into creating 3d RPG games. Any suggestions?

Depends what you want. If you want an engine to power your game, there are plenty of pickings - I'd suggest looking into them to see what is right for you; cube 2 has its limits and I'm doing the best I can within them.
modeller wise, we generally recommend blender, in part since it's the only suite with an iqm exported (the model format we recommend over the aging smd and md5 formats)
texture/image wise, i generally recommend krita for drawings, inkscape/gimp are popular choices too and the adobe suite of products is used by some in the community.

I want to be able to export the games as standalone EXE versions, with no ad-screens or such, and I want to be able to make professional looking games without hiring a crew of 567 people to do it. Any ideas?

This one is several questions in one...
* EXE exports - There is no such thing, once you've extracted sandbox everything is there; everything you use, everything you try from the community, everything you've created and everything you altered. It is up to you (or someone else on your team) to package everything. Just watch out for non-commercial licenses.
why not check my (rushed) halloween contest entry for an example? viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3238
* ad-screens - what ads?
* games with that professional look - Obviously you'll need a capable team, with designers, coders, writers and artists to pull it off. We barely have enough resources to try the things we want to, or even bundle a "waterwars" game (we've been waiting on usable art for years!).
This writeup by eihrul may be worth a read http://cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action ... ad_id=1562

[chocolatepie33]

I believe the Cube 2 documentation has most of the abbreviations explained well, quadropolis may also have some important stuff on those as well.

[Tony]

Hirato,
You are too darn generous with your time. While I so very much appreciate the attention you give to my posts, I feel guilty because you could be coding instead of babysitting a newbie.

That being said, let’s discuss a few things, and perhaps it will streamline the overall process in the interest of the future.

A) THIS article http://cubeengine.com/forum.php4?action ... ad_id=1562 is so very spot-on. Somebody actually said the truth and spelled it out very clearly. Salute to that guy.

B) viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3238 (Your “Hallows” game). This is the sort of projects that I would like to produce. A standalone game like this; and this is entirely possible with PAS. I would like to disable the Edit mode capability, and change the load screen, but yeah, this is the type I thing I want to produce. By EXE, I suppose I mean an auto-extraction/installer. (Extract the files into a destination and plop a shortcut on the desktop, think ease of end-user use as in like for your Grandma.)

Let me share my vision with you, so you know what my goals are. The PAS software project centers around an educational opportunity for kids, to make their own games, learn about creating software, and to have creative games to play sans violence and graphic content. My vision is oriented more to senior citizens, in providing engaging and interesting content, puzzles and RPG storylines that do not include violence and graphic content. Senior citizens, and also any adults or kids, or family-oriented folks that want fun game content without sex and violence.

The MMORPG games out there are terrible in that the players in the game environment are just horrible to play around. It’s terrible. I wouldn’t want my pre-teen kid or elderly mother to have to endure that abuse. And I don’t think you can effectively control the players to behave. So, the alternative is non-MMO games. There are several options for this, online games such as found on Facebook, and other services. Usually these are free-to-play, but with ads and you can only play them online. Or, you can play for free, but you eventually get to a point where they want you to use real-world dollars to buy tokens or whatever. If the server is down, you can’t play. And browser-based games are just… yuck, IMHO.

I think a good solution is downloadable games, safe and non-violent, non-sex, and well-made fully-self-contained games for PC. This is what I would like to create and distribute. For free. No-cost, no-ads, no strings attached.

It is really good for elderly folks to stay sharp by working puzzles; eye-hand coordination of video games is good for them. And I would like to provide engaging, entertaining, clever stuff for them to play. And I’d like to create good RPG games that anyone can enjoy.

That is my vision. And I shall make it so. I understand that this project will be an ongoing pursuit, and have committed myself to at least 2-3 years of time devoted to working on this. After that, I will evaluate my success and see if I shall continue.

There is more to this mini-novel, so bear with me please.

[Tony]

Now… here is my intention, concerning the PAS team and project. If this is suitable for you fine folks.

I’ll be perfectly honest with you; I am not here to dedicate my life to your project. I came here seeking software that will enable my own vision to become a reality. In that same sense, I did not come here to benefit from other folk’s work and not give anything in return. I could just as easily go buy any number of software suites or titles to use in my project, but I have a lot of admiration and respect for open-source providers and would just as soon support their efforts (But I do need to get the job done for my own primary goals).

I am not here asking for help on any of my projects, nor am I here to recruit folks for my own projects in any way. Now for sure, I’ll be asking questions about the scripting and such, but I absolutely do not expect nor want anyone doing my work for me.

It will be a while before I am able to constructively contribute anything of substance to this community; I expect it to take me some time to learn the software to a point where I am effective and knowledgeable enough to contribute anything of real value beyond encouragement and general support.

When I do get my proverbial poo together and feel confident and capable, here are the things I expect to contribute to this community: Promotion – through my game distributions and promotional articles, well-placed references to the PAS community and software. Tutorials - both for game-play and for developers. These are two things that I am sure to be in a position to help with.

Content – Any content that I create, maps, models, and scripting methods or chunks, and anything I do. If it’s from me, it’s for free, right back into the community.

I do not have any pie-in-the-sky aspirations of becoming the next big thing in gaming creation. I simply want to provide high-quality 3d RPG and puzzle-games and distribute them.

If this is the community where I can get this done, then I’m all about it.

If you think there is a better path or method for me, tell me now please. I really just want to get the job done and have some fun along the way.

I think this software will do that for me.

Thanks for reading this mess; I just wanted you guys to know where I’m coming from. I’m middle-aged, I’m not a kid, and I do have resources. And I’m not scared =)

[Hirato]

a double post... not particularly convenient to respond to

You are too darn generous with your time. While I so very much appreciate the attention you give to my posts, I feel guilty because you could be coding instead of babysitting a newbie.

I'm actually supposed to study for exams, so I'm not in a position to code for another week.
I don't mind answering questions if they're sufficiently interesting or well formed.

I've actually taken a liking to you, you seem well spoken...

The MMORPG games out there are terrible ....
browser-based games are just… yuck ....
my vision ... in providing engaging and interesting content, puzzles and RPG storylines ...
I’d like to create good RPG games that anyone can enjoy. ....

and you're a man after my own heart <3

B) viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3238 (Your “Hallows” game). This is the sort of projects that I would like to produce. A standalone game like this; and this is entirely possible with PAS. I would like to disable the Edit mode capability, and change the load screen, but yeah, this is the type I thing I want to produce. By EXE, I suppose I mean an auto-extraction/installer. (Extract the files into a destination and plop a shortcut on the desktop, think ease of end-user use as in like for your Grandma.)

I know what you meant, and the final point is what I meant when I said you (or someone on your team) would need to package everything for distribution. whether this be a zip, a tar.gz or even a self extracting archive or even an installer, that's up to you and your needs.
For editmode to be removed properly, you will need to remove or disable edittoggle command inside the game, The easiest thing to do for your demographic may be to simply eliminate the binds when you package your games for distribution.
Loading screen wise, you'll find a few art assets in data/loadingscreen. Without changing the code (see rendergl.cpp), you can only tweak those, Before you delve in there, i warn you, the floating point calculations there hurt even my head.

My vision is oriented more to senior citizens, in providing engaging and interesting content, puzzles and RPG storylines that do not include violence and graphic content.

I came here seeking software that will enable my own vision to become a reality.

I believe you've completed the RPG tutorial I've written on the wiki.
In having done so, you should have a fair idea of what sandbox is capable of in its current form (The RPG is currently an Alpha ) and whether or not it's the sort of pipeline or engine you would want to work with.
I'm a huge fan of the more old-school RPGs, (Especially Fallout 2 and Arcanum) and where possible and appropriate, I draw significant amount of inspiration from them. I do my best to encourage people around to make non-linear games and put effort into alternative solution(when skills like Stealth have been better implemented)

The MMORPG games out there are terrible in that the players in the game environment are just horrible to play around. It’s terrible. I wouldn’t want my pre-teen kid or elderly mother to have to endure that abuse. And I don’t think you can effectively control the players to behave.

I don't like MMORPGs either albeit for different reasons.
I dislike them because they're absolutely awful games that are nigh irredeemable.
The only good aspect about them is that they facilitate social interaction, which means they're basically glorified chat rooms!

There are several options for this, online games such as found on Facebook, and other services. Usually these are free-to-play, but with ads and you can only play them online. Or, you can play for free, but you eventually get to a point where they want you to use real-world dollars to buy tokens or whatever.

Ah yes, DLC and the dreaded microtransactions.
At any rate, I'm certain you've figured out by now that sandbox has no ads
I'm not certain if the like of Expansion packs or DLC are possible in sandbox's current framework...

At any rate, I'm glad you're committed to not doing Yet Another Mumorpuger, or being otherwise parasitic with DLCs and assorted other microtransactions

I am not here asking for help on any of my projects, nor am I here to recruit folks for my own projects in any way. Now for sure, I’ll be asking questions about the scripting and such, but I absolutely do not expect nor want anyone doing my work for me.

Good, we have got enough idiots doing that already
I'm very tempted to ban those threads and those that make them if they have either nothing to show in them or if what they show is of worse quality than what is included in sandbox already.


Do pop into IRC sometime, I'd quite like to have a realtime talk with you about RPGs and stuffies

[Tony]

I see that the RPG mode is still in Alpha, and that is my only real worry.
I think that's the mode I'd like to use mostly.
Probably though, by the time I get good with everything entailed in creating great content, hopefully the RPG mode will be into release stage.

I actually rent a Ventrilo server, capable of handling 100 users. And will probably drop that and purchase a license for the software and then host a Ventrilo on one of my own servers. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. I probably will do that soon. Maybe even this month. If that's the case, then I can easily provide a Vent service for the PAS folks. If you are familiar with Ventrilo, the client is free to download and use. It's a VoIP voice server software, often used in team gameplay such as WoW Raiding or for corporations to use in distance-conferencing.

I use it for WoW, I have a very active raiding guild in that particular MMORPG. I'm getting out of it though, just had enough of the whole thing man. But I will still provide my guild with Vent service and look after some of the folks there, because they are good folks.

Mayhaps I can catch you in your IRC sometime soon. If you have microphone/headset, we can always meet up in my Vent.


By the way,

or even bundle a "waterwars" game (we've been waiting on usable art for years!).

What art do you need?

Thanks,
- Tony

[chocolatepie33]

By the way,
or even bundle a "waterwars" game (we've been waiting on usable art for years!).

What art do you need?

At a wild guess, I'm saying maybe a variety of water guns or water-based weapons (e.g. water balloon bomb/grenade thrower, stuff like that). I'm also gonna have to say textures which could be used. For 2.7.1, a lot of textures (and other content? IDK) were removed due to license issues. If I remember correctly, I believe content needs to have these allowances:

*derivatives may be made with it
*commercial-friendly
*DFSG compliant
*see here: http://www.sandboxgamemaker.com/wiki/in ... n_free_art